very aware of what mattered. >> juliet, at first he said, well, compared to the east german olympic efforts of doping, you know, back in the '70s and '80s, it wasn't as sophisticated. he's comparing to an east german government effort to dope at the olympics. he also denied that even within the sport of cycling, it was not the most sophisticated. but you're saying, juliet, it's arguable whether in all sports, but in the sport of cycling there was no other team that could do what this team could. >> well, i'm not sure. but if there was a team like that, then the u.s. postal service team wouldn't have won seven tours in a row. that was pretty phenomenal. there was a reason for that. you know, people tend to think it was because they were doping better than everybody else. >> it's, again, another development in this ongoing story. betsy, juliet, we appreciate talking to you.